Why are Men in Hong Kong such Wankers?
Dear Anita,
I know you are really pro-men and that you have a broad appreciation for the opposite sex, but I would like to share a few stories with you. I just want to know- What gives men in Hong Kong a license to act like complete jerks and think they can get away with it?
I was coming home on the ferry from Macau one night with my girlfriend and this pair of pompous tools tried to pick us up. They were obviously intoxicated and saying whatever they wanted- blurting out references to my breasts and other such blatant injustices.
"I think girls like cock more than guys like pussy." One of the guys said rudely. "The problem is-girls don't want their other girlfriends to know. If they could do it without their girlfriends judging them, they would be worst than guys."
Even if there was any inkling of truth to this, you just don't say things like this to girls you just met. One of the guys was kind of cute and it was really a shame they were such wankers. I tolerated them for a lot longer than was necessary. It might have been because we were trapped in the waiting room with them or it might have been because I was looking on with morbid fascination to see how far they would take it. My girlfriend finally pulled me away. "You don't have to talk to these assholes! Why did you even put up with them for as long as you did? Your ‘jerk-dar’ (jerk radar) must be broken."
Actually my jerk-dar must be broken because recently I was dating exactly the same kind of arrogant prick. He had charisma- which I was why I was initially drawn to him- but he drank excessively and was always in Wanchai chasing easy lays and domestic helpers. He'd say exceptionally rude things to people and top of that, he had the white man’s entitlement complex. In addition, he was in the aggressive field of finance and this taught him literally how to be a 'big swinging dickhead'. I was so disgusted when I found out what he was really like and the problem was, no one ever set him straight. Unfortunately, I'm quite sure that he's already sleeping some other naive girl with a defective jerk-dar.
We were recounting these tales to a male friend over drinks one night. He said he had a theory about why there was such a high concentration of assholes in Hong Kong . He said anywhere else in the world, people get beat up if they’re inappropriate. Here, they just get away with it. In addition, since Hong Kong is such a transient place, people are not as careful about what they say cause chances are, in a couple of months or a couple of years, they'll be transferred out of here anyway.
Our friend went on to explain that many men in Hong Kong never got any play back in their home country. They would be lucky if a girl even glanced in their direction. They get out to Asia and suddenly it's not only possible for them to get laid, but it's possible to have multiple hot Asian girfriends. If one girl gives you trouble, there's another one just behind. Therefore, these losers, for the first times in their lives, start to feel like rockstars and they act like rockstars- irreverent, irresponsible- with no danger of anyone telling them off. Hence it's easy to see how the jerk-alert goes from amber to red in no time!
So one night I'm at a certain basement nightclub and there are these special DJs there. The place was so tightly packed, that when the DJs came on, the crowd became one big jumping, writhing, sweaty mass and I had no choice but to go along with it lest I get trampled. This guy comes up directly behind me and starts gyrating his privates against me. I couldn't move, imprisoned by the sheer wall of people and I was involuntarily pinned against him. Luckily, I was wearing stilleto heels and managed to jump directly on his foot- stabbing it with my deadly heel. As he was reeling in pain, I fled for less crowded corners. Later on, I saw him again near the toilets and he was like "HI" and gave me the raised eyebrow like he was some big stud-muffin that I couldn't wait to jump on. Uggh. I mean come on! Did he think I got turned on? RED JERK ALERT!!
Our party moved onto another bar in LKF where this older guy who was so obviously married with two kids tried to chat me up. RED JERK ALERT!!!
When I got home, I looked at my phone and had a few late-night smses with the winky symbol from a guy that one of my girlfriends just broke up with! What the hell does he want from me at 2am? RED JERK ALERT!!!
Funnily these days, I've been noticing a high contingent of girls who have turned gay or became bi-curious. Is this a social phenomenon borne of the high concentration of unsavory men in this town? I'm not saying all men in Hong Kong suck, and I'm certainly not giving up on men just yet. But ladies- DO NOT under any circumstances allow men to disrespect you. Not where you're from, not here, not ever.
Signed "Nearly a Lesbian"
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Comments
I'm a guy that has in the past picked up a lot of girls, mainly Western educated Chinese in clubs such as Prive.
Now of course I don't go around acting like an idiot by telling girls to suck my plums.
There are jerks that are idiots and jerks that are highly intelligent, totally narssicistical, and very manipulative.
A lot of bankers and lawyers in this town are like that. The funny thing is Honky_town is both right and wrong.
Women are naturally drawn to alpha males, not all females are, but given a choice most females prefer an intelligent, successful, funny, charming and interesting man.
However, that has zero correlation to nice.
The other guys are right, and Honky_town is wrong in that nice is not rewarded in this town, hence nice guys simply disappear. Why be nice when it doesn't get you laid? Once I was an asshole I got laid a lot, so obviously being intelligent I would manipulate girls into having sex with me by PRETENDING to be nice for the duration of the courtship process.
Also, don't tell me only airheads fall for these silly games. If only bimbos and airheads fall for guys pretending to be nice and charming then there's no need for this thread.
In a town like HK there's 30% more single women than men. Of the men let's assume 80% are nice but not charismatic, or highly successful, the type Honky_town (and obviously not in a shallow way) looks down at.
Of the 19% of the single men that are highly successful and doing well. 18% are players, or banging hookers in Macau, China or Wanchai.
1% of the men are highly successful and nice. But the key point is, because they are not stupid, why would they pick a bitch like Honky_town?
Last weekend I had dinner at a friend's restaurant with a couple of my girlfriends. After we left, we stopped outside for a smoke before getting into a cab. Then there were these three drunk Englishmen approaching us from a place called 'The Bridge'. One of them came straight to me and said something so rude and sexist that I would never imagine someone say to a female. He said' I bet you girls want to suck my plums!' Come on, you had fun and had a few drinks, now you are drunk. Go home! Just because you are in Wan Chai, and there are girls in Wan Chai does not mean you can go and harass or disrespect them. Being a foreigner does not give you the right or power to be disrepectful to women. I am half American, does that give me the right to call you a 'Twat' for no reason? What a disgrace!
Please gentlemen, get your act together. Learn to respect women.
P.S I know there are a lot of men out there who respect and treat women respectfully and I feel sorry for all of you because the bad reputation all comes from these classless gents.
What is the most annoying is the type of guy who reply to ur msg such as "You re right, there are so many assholes here but I am a good one"...anyway, the bottom line is that all of your experience could have turned in a nice way if the guys were doing the same but in a funny manner...cause since you seems to get attracted very easily by a guy (the guy seems to have charisma, the other kind of cute), better to be fast and right to the point with you...but still I admit you had no chance to bump onto guys who don t play well
Hello Nearly a Lesbian,
I'm a western guy in my early thirties whose lived in Asia for nearly ten years. Based on everything you say, I totally see where you're coming from, and I see many of the same things you say in your post. Many of these dirt bags disgust me so much that I've made it a point in my life never to be like them and I don't mean to volunteer any advice but if I were to make any suggestion to you it would be.... don't totally give up on men in Hong Kong. Although there aren't many good ones in Hong Kong, there are some good ones out there, and it's only a matter of time before you find yourself in a good relationship with a man that you love and one who deserves your love too.
I especially agree with what you say regarding not to let yourself be disrespected. The truth is that any good person, whether be woman or man, will not disrespect you..... so if anybody gives you some shit, it's a good time to walk away.
It's unfortunate but many of these guys out there in the dating scene have been brainwashed by books, websites, and television programs focused on how a man should pick up a woman, and after all that studying of crap written by assholes, they usually just end up looking like an asshole as well. Much of this nonsense is most likely a fad thats going to wash away.
All the best to you singles in Hong Kong,
Lux
Thanks for sharing your perceptions!
It sounds like you must attract them, why is that?
Maybe you are shopping in the wrong market?
Be sure to keep us posted of further developments!
I read the article and all the comments with great interest. I agree that women here in Asia have to stop accepting inappropriate behaviour from men because back in their home country, bad behaviour would not be tolerated.
Being Asian myself, I've had my share of bad behaviour from men, but I've never accepted it and once I tell the men, they will back off. I don't do it screaming. In fact it is not about what you say, it is how you say it. Calm and collected comments are more powerful than hysterics.
I feel that sometimes Asians are afraid to come across as being rude, but unacceptable behaviour is what it is: Unacceptable. And when Asian women start to realise that it is alright not to be always nice and polite to rude men, maybe bad behaviour will stop.
There are two sides to every story, the staggering number of deeply psychotic women in HK who are raging alcoholics, shallow, materialistic and "entitled" is equally troubling for the male residents. Of course generalising and stereotyping is unfair on those to whom it does not apply however my dating history in HK has left me cynical to the core.
It is never right for men to disrespect women, and the pricks you met on the ferry deserve to have their asses handed to them, however until women stop friend-zoning nice guys and chasing the men with "charisma" the law of natural selection means that the number of charismatic assholes will increase exponentially and the number of nice guys will decrease and eventually go extinct. Cause and effect.
:)
"however until women stop friend-zoning nice guys and chasing the men with "charisma" the law of natural selection means that the number of charismatic assholes will increase exponentially and the number of nice guys will decrease and eventually go extinct."
I love how self-described "nice guys" always seem to complain about how women always go for other men. Everyone gets rejected, deal with it. If you are beginning to notice a pattern, maybe it doesn't so much have to do with the women in HK (which are all very, very different) than it does with YOU. Maybe you're not a nice guy, but a cynical, negative, snarky, bitter beta male who flunked Chivalry 101.
The one thing the charismatic men have going for them is that they're pleasant to be around. Charisma isn't a bad thing. In fact, it's almost a necessity in a hyper-social environment like HK. Us girls are smart - we can sniff out a guy who's spitting a bunch of game at us and won't offer us much in return. In all honesty, we'd rather be around the "charismatic" guy who doesn't carry a huge chip on his shoulder about the women in this city than around the "nice guy" who think's he's too good for all of the raging alcoholics, shallow, materialistic and entitled "psychos" out there.
Here's a hint. If you really want to be valued by women as a nice guy, it's pretty simple. YOU MUST LIKE WOMEN. It's not nice to refer to them as "deeply psychotic". Smile more at them. Don't complain about your day, or talk too much about your job. Ask them questions. Buy them a drink. And if they're with one or two friends, buy the girlfriends a drink as well. Getting in good with a girl's friends makes the difference between getting her to respond to your text messages and being the topic of conversation (read: ridicule) at ladies' brunch the next day. And don't be cheap. Nothing spells buzzkill more than going dutch.
Until you (and every other bitter "nice guy" out there) learn these simple lessons, you will always lose out to the "charismatic asshole".
Hope this helps.
The bitter guys who call themselves nice guys are usually just discouraged because they tried being nice and it can be hard not to be bitter after showing off your best side to many people only to see some arrogant jerk win out just because they display more confidence. And yes, this is a fault of women in society at large, not guys. When it comes to dating, especially in early years, the selfish tend to get rewarded, because self confidence comes easy to people who just don't give a damn about others. Those who would actually go out of their way for people tend to worry about others needs, tend to second guess themselves, and if they don't have someone to show them how to do it right... well this leads to problems in their life until they learn to appear more confident, which comes later for some than others.
Mum!? Is that you?
No but seriously, I would never dream of referring to myself as "a nice guy" as you'll note when you reread my previous comment without your knee-jerk rage making that vein across your forehead throb and cloud your vision. You may also note my use of quotation marks before and after my use of the word charismatic. This was a direct implication of sarcasm, you see, these men aren't really charismatic, they are just arrogant, the difference is startling when you know what to look for. Have a try!
I laughed out loud at our second paragraph where you all but quoted me back to myself, did you just finish reading the Listen Up article and not notice the writers name?
"Maybe it doesn't so much have to do with the women in HK (which are all very, very different) than it does with YOU. Maybe you're not a nice guy."
versus
"Saying you can’t find anyone here says a lot more about you than it does about the town you live in. Maybe you’re the problem. Be honest with yourself. Do you suck?"
See the similarity? What are the odds.
You also misread my point about shallow, psychotic women. I never said nor implied you are all mad, I used the term "a staggering number of women in Hong Kong" not "all women in Hong Kong" read that a couple of times and play spot the difference. I stand by my point, Hong Kong is overflowing with assholes and delusional deeply psychotic women, perhaps they all deserve each other, from a purely anthropological stand point it would make a fascinating case study or a gripping Discovery Channel documentary.
And finally, "If you really want to be valued by women as a nice guy, it's pretty simple. YOU MUST LIKE WOMEN. It's not nice to refer to them as "deeply psychotic". " Let me just say again, I said a staggering number of women, not all of them. Sheesh! And I do like women, real women, who aren't mad as hatters and who are willing to sell themselves for a handbag, a dinner and a weekend in Phuket at the Banyan Tree.
I do like your work though, very well written although sadly your premise based on misquotations and erroneously drawn conclusions. If you'd ever like to co-write a punch and judy style weekly column shoot me an email. It'd be fun!
benjaminhk@gmail.com
"I stand by my point, Hong Kong is overflowing with assholes and delusional deeply psychotic women, perhaps they all deserve each other, from a purely anthropological stand point it would make a fascinating case study or a gripping Discovery Channel documentary."
Armchair anthropology is fun, especially because it allows you to divert attention away from your own flaws and failures and blame them on societal phenomena instead of the person in the mirror. I've had largely positive experiences with men in this city; aside from a few turds floating in the harbour the men here have been overwhelmingly intelligent, interesting and decent (if not flawed), and it's neither my fault nor theirs (or, equally my fault and theirs) if things happened not to work out.
But I digress.
It's no secret that this place has an abnormally high concentration (a "staggering number", if you will) of well-educated, type-A women who came here by themselves on account of a work-related opportunity, often in finance or law. Not many of these women who work at large banks, funds or law firms are going to have an easy time dating a bartender, teacher, or other lesser-educated, lower-income earner with a chip on his shoulder inflamed by a bad case of tall-poppy syndrome (neither will many of the local girls you meet at Prive, but that's another topic entirely). There are exceptions, but, by and large, the lion doth not take up with the antelope.
Now, before y'all get all up in my grill and start quoting Kanye, hear me out. It's because we, like most people, would rather couple up with someone who shares our values and experiences than with someone who doesn't. If Chuck B. Asshole is going to relate to us better because of our academic, career and financial successes (because he shares them), and if Joe the Bartender finds them overly intimidating or pretentious, then it's a no-brainer which man is the better catch.
It's not about selling ourselves for a handbag and a few tony weekend holidays. It's about finding someone who won't be frightened off when our work schedules cause us to postpone weekend plans, because he understands your job's demands. It's about not having to worry that you'll be dumped for some cheerful girl with big tits after coming home at 3 AM for the fourth time in a row, well after your makeup and deodorant have worn off and your pedicure has long since rubbed away, because He knows that you won't be engaged in "private workouts" with your personal trainer when it's his turn for long nights at the printer's.
For better or for worse, Hong Kong is a city full of tall poppies. Adventurous, nomadic, deliberate-living, suck-the-marrow-out-of-life tall poppies. We may or may not have obtained a leg up through the luck of the parental lottery, but most of us have made the best of our circumstance, worked our way through school, and landed, through largely our own efforts (and maybe some personal connections), at close to the top of the heap. Is it terribly shallow, materialistic or entitled to hope to find someone similar?
As for The Ultimate Dude, claiming that "self confidence comes easy to people who just don't give a damn about others" makes you sound like a butthurt milquetoast with Asperger's. Self-confidence doesn't come easy to anyone. Neither does climbing Everest, making your first million, cooking a souffle, or slogging your way through Joyce's Ulysses, yet there are people on earth who make all of the above look like a Sunday dawdle. Playas be frontin'.
The Ultimate Dude beat me to it and then beat your ass with it.
TUD is right. You never gave the bartender time of day, you were busy at the bar getting talked into sloppy drunk sex some asshole in a suit (or charismatic career minded chap, if you prefer) while the barman watched on. He's seen many women like you come and go, he's seen the asshole you're now talking to taking home columbian hookers, thai ladboys and puking all over himself. The fact of the matter is, the barman deserves better than you Honky_Tonk. Much better.
You throw around phrases like "well-educated, type-A women" without realising how bad that makes you look to everyone else. Are you seriously referencing yourself as a "Type-A"? Do you genuinely think you landed "close to the top of the heap"? I mean seriously, egotistical much?
You seem insulted by the thought of being labelled shallow and materialistic and then you carelessly admit preferring men with the same level of "academic, career and financial successes". If you pull your Oxford Dictionary off the shelf and look up shallow, you'll find a picture of yourself over a quote of the text "Chuck B. Asshole is going to relate to us better because of our academic, career and financial successes."
You see I started at the bottom of the heap. Ironically as a bartender. Though I may have only been 18 I saw a literal plethora of women just like you come and go, I also met a small number of women who restored the faith in humanity I had lost watching you and your "Type-A" friends celebrating their ascension of "the heap" without realising that there is no heap and there are no types.
To be honest I was hoping for a bit of fun and banter but I have to say your attitude, your lousy attempts at ebonics ("Playas be frontin'" - you really wanted to finish your diatribe on that note? Seriously?), your references to an alphabetical class structure that you find yourself at the top of and the speed at which you attempt to diminish men like TUD have left me with a bad taste in my mouth, but then again, I am sure you know far more about having bad tastes in your mouth than I do.
Don't forget to floss.
I was once a bit of a meek milquetoast. Never had Asperger's though. And really the fact that you would be hating on the meek or people with a mental condition that they can't help just makes you sound unpleasant, rude, and immature. The fact is I just call it like I see it. The self absorbed are usually confident as a mere side effect of their lack of care for those around them. It's not through any special skill or anything they get up in the morning and earn. It's not even a talent like the things you listed. It's just a fact.
" If Chuck B. Asshole is going to relate to us better because of our academic, career and financial successes (because he shares them), and if Joe the Bartender finds them overly intimidating or pretentious, then it's a no-brainer which man is the better catch."
Yeah, Joe the Bartender, but you probably deserve Chuck B. Asshole. Best of luck finding him.
In all seriousness though, odds are you didn't even give Joe the Bartender the time of day. How would you possibly know what he has to offer? Maybe Joe the Bartender has seen douchebags like Chuck B. Asshole every day he has worked at the bar and has reason for the way he feels. Maybe he just needs a little boost in life to be something more. I mean he obviously understands the value of work.
Also, the funny thing is your insistence that everyone with these problems just isn't looking at themselves. For me the first step to confidence was realizing I had to stop blaming myself for everything. Every time I got rejected I would beat myself up for it. It's funny though, when you start looking at the faults of others, you tend to realize you aren't so bad yourself. I just wish I could beat that idea into the heads of some of my friends still struggling, but it seems it's just an idea people have to learn for themselves. Perhaps you may want to take a hard look at yourself instead of telling everyone else that they need to look at themselves.
I'll reply to both Ultimate Dude and Benjamin in this post.
"In all seriousness though, odds are you didn't even give Joe the Bartender the time of day."
Actually, you're wrong. I dated a "Bartender Joe" for a while not too long ago. Maybe I was inspired by the Miranda-and-Steve fictional relationship on Sex and the City, or maybe I just enjoyed his banter and found him a refreshing change from the self-proclaimed masters of the universe that I usually attract.
While we had chemistry on several levels, I felt there was a complete lack of disconnect and compatibility. It became clear to me that while I admired his big heart and envied his easygoing demeanor, I was much more compatible with someone who, like me, was driven, achievment-oriented, intellectually curious and a bit more type-A.
By the way, the term "type-A" refers to the type-A versus type-B personality dichotomy, which I, before today, assumed was common knowledge. It does not refer to an "alphabetical class structure" a la Brave New World.
"You throw around phrases like "well-educated, type-A women" without realising how bad that makes you look to everyone else."
And this is the reason that I'd prefer Chuck B. Asshole. I'm not saying it would be a long-lived relationship. I have only slightly more tolerance for douchebaggery than I do for ignorance and laziness. But at least Chuck would understand (and perhaps share) my competitiveness, intensity and occasional impatience with delays/incompetence.
"You see I started at the bottom of the heap. Ironically as a bartender."
So did I and most of my friends. It's very common for people to take such jobs when we're at university, on gap year, or in periods of unsteady paychecks or unemployment. But the difference between you and I (and most of my friends) is that after those times have passed, we're no longer bartenders. We're bankers, lawyers, professors, scientists, military officers, artists, master craftsmen, computer programmers, entrepreneurs and doctors. And if we're still working at the bar, it's because we own it. Even Sex-and-the-City Steve graduated from being a bartender to being a bar-owner.
"You seem insulted by the thought of being labelled shallow and materialistic and then you carelessly admit preferring men with the same level of "academic, career and financial successes"."
Would you label a woman shallow if she was an evangelical Christian and declined to date an atheist? Or if she was an athlete and had trouble dating an out of shape fellow who drank too much? Or a woman who had a passion for travel and found nothing in common with a man who never cared to leave his home country?
A similar concept is at work here. COMPATIBILITY, not superficiality is the key. Many women who come to HK are career-focused and value achievment, hard work and success. We've worked for our hard-earned achievments and hope to find a man who's done the same, because that man can appreciate where we've come from and who we are more than someone who hasn't.
There's also something to be said for the fact that a lot of women do want children, and don't see a life where they will be both breadwinner and caregiver to be good for them, their husband or the child. So maternally-minded women may be more likely to take a man's "provider" capacity into account when they start looking for a relationship.
I'm not saying that all women will, or should, ignore the Bartender Joes. Bartender Joe could be a great catch for a certain woman. I'm still on good terms with "my" Bartender Joe - but we realized we'd be best off with people who shared more of our respective values.
Calling professional women like me "psychotic" or "entitled", or flinging insults at the guys who seek these women, just smacks of bitterness and only draws attention to your chip on your shoulder. And NO WOMAN, whatever her values and preferences may be, wants a man with that big a chip on his shoulder. So, sorry, Mario, your princess is in another castle.
Thanks for your input BB. Your points are very well stated. You're probably right about women being generally more emotional, less transparent or more complex then men-hence this can be read as 'psycho'. This is natural and has to do with biology and social conditioning.
The important point here is that there are two sides to every story and that one should not stereotype, nor allow themselves to become cynical about the opposite sex.
We do need each other to make the world go around, so it's important to try to see and respect each other's points of view. Really disrespectful behavior should not be tolerated from either sex.
Dear Almost Lesbian-
Thanks for sharing your stories and do not ever get discouraged. There are nice guys out there!
Also men- WTF are you thinking? stop acting like psuedo-rockstars and wake up and smell the coffee! Get over yourselves and behave will you?!! or I will send my kickboxing instructor after you, or better yet, we can hold a self-defense class so every girl in Hong Kong will know how to knee men in the balls properly! LOL!
Also Lesbian, if you are tired of men, you might want to check out my friend's website for discreet sex toys.
http://feelpassionately.com/
Who needs men- when you can have guaranteed satisfaction ever time? Haha.. Just kidding. Humpf. Men. Can't live with them, can't live without them.
I do a standup bit for my show in SoHo talking about this very thing - gweilojackson.com.
Men are little boys in big pants. Women should NOT be disrespected.
And besides women know how to please and nurture women - so if I was a woman - I would date women.
I make the analogy. A woman wants to dance. A woman naturally knows how to dance. She asks a man who has to fake knowing how to dance. But then the woman has to close her EYES and let the guy lead her...! And the goal of him leading you correctly to make YOU look good, sexy, loved. NOT HIM.
But an adverse thing happens - men want you more when you don't want them. You get to be choosy. And if you take a dabble on the woman side - you ALSO drive men into a frenzy. But a man who understands why you "experimented" and not because of some fantasy in his own brain - will make sure he caters to your needs.
Also remember guys push your boundaries to see how far you will bend yourself. That's the first rounds of dating. We want to see how far you will go to respect or disrespect yourself. So remember that you attract and hook up with - those you act and emulate.
Signed,
The Male Lesbian
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